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Fitting Chassidus into a BT’s Life

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Dear Beyond BT

Like many BTs, I was mekareved (brought to Torah observance) by a Yeshivish oriented institution. In my explorations on the Internet the past few years I have found many sites with a Chassidic flavor in which the authors are constantly working on themselves and their relationship with Hashem. I find this extremely motivating and it is where I want my Judaism to be.

I wanted to ask the Beyond BT audience, how important they think Chassidus is for a BT?

How would they suggest injecting some Chassidus into their lives?

Are their any obstacles on the path of integrating Chassidus?

Thanks
Michael

42 comments on “Fitting Chassidus into a BT’s Life”

  1. Regarding Breslov Chasidus, I remember about 35 years ago in the mid-nineteen-seventies, there was a group of young families in the Brighton Beach area of Brooklyn, led by Rabbi Leon (Aryeh) Rosenfeld of blessed memory. I can remember several things about the group: Rabbi Rosenfeld encouraged the young men to go to college and study computer programming for parnasa; they dressed like non-hyphenated Orthodox Jews; their baby sons were named Nachman; and they gave out little booklets with the Tikkun Klali (ten Tehillim to be said as a segulah). I think that after the petirah of Rabbi Rosenfeld the group broke up, there may have a been a group that continued in the Boro Park area. There was no “Na Nach” at that time, but there were people going to Uman for Rosh Hashanah (not in the thousands like nowadays).

  4. Shalom friends,
    I just want to say that it’s interesting that alot more people are getting in to chassidus as a derech, as an alternative to the mainstream litvish and dati leumi worlds, and are not necessarily becoming Breslov or Chabad, though of course almost everyone is strongly influenced by them. Also alot of FFB’s are now wearing chassidus lavush on Shabbos because they feel connected to it, or have ancestry- look around and see how many more beckishers on Shabbos are being worn in Far Rockaway and Toronto. Even the usually rational Israeli Dati Leimu world is very strongly influenced by Breslov and other chassidus these days. Redemption is coming!
    Also someone wanted to know what are the most popular sefarim besides Breslov/Chabad, some of the most beloved for me are Sefer Baal Shem Tov, Kedushas Levi, Noam Elimelech, Mei HaShiloach, Sfas Emes, Netivos Shalom….

  6. “Verbalization probably encourages inertia.”

    YMR, does that mean blogging about it could also encourage inertia?

    Verbalization, blogging, etc., may actually give oneself or others a necessary pep talk or boost.

  7. All of the facets of real Judaism are valid. Chassidus is made by real scholarship in Gemora, Halacha, post-Lurianic Kabbala in response to the needs of a generation. I have learned Tamya enough to like and appreciate it. Other Torah-centric self-improvements methods exist. I know about Ramchal, Mussar, Ben Ish Chai, Dressler. They are also good. Pirke Avot tells you to use the one you LIKE. The very beginning of Shulhan Aruch tells the reader to NOT worry about what other people may say. Aim at your target, talk less, act more. Verbalization probably encourages inertia.

  8. Since someone mentioned Satmar, I am reminded about a story of the Satmarer Rov. Someone onece asked him why we now intermarry among Chassidim and Misnaggedim, which was not done in the prior generations.

    He gave the following moshol as an answer:

    There was once a very wealthy man who had two daughters to marry off. As was the custom in those days, he sought out sons-in-law who were talmidei chachamim whom he would support in learning. The first shidduch was arranged; the son-in-law had one unique condition: every day at dinner he would be served a fleishig meal. The couple was married and every day at dinner a sumptuous, multi-course fleishig meal was served.

    Then the second shidduch was arranged. Son-in-law number two had on unique condition: every day at dinner he would be served a milchig meal.

    To accomodate this situtaion, the rich man set up two separate tables in his dining room. On the first, the first son-in-law was served a sumptuous, multi-course fleishig meal; on the other the second son-in-law was served a sumptuous, multi-course milchig meal.

    This continued for a while, but then the father-in-law’s business took a downturn and there was less money. He had to cut back. So now each meal was less sumptusous; the one was still fleishig, the other milchig, but there were fewer course and less fancy food at each table.

    Then the business took a further downturn; the result were simpler meals at each table.

    Then the business took an even sharper downturn. The result: son-in-law one had to eat potatoes fried in chicken fat; son-in-law two had to eat potatoes fried in butter.

    Finally, the business got so bad that it went bankrupt. Everyone in the family had to eat plain, boiled potatoes. The family started setting up separate tables as before, when the father-in-law said: “When times were good, we had sumptuos dinners and had to have separate tables for fleishigs and milchigs. Even when business was on the decline and we only ate fried potatoes, we needed separate tables. But now we are down to just plain boiled potatoes. We might as well just eat together on one table.”

    The same applies, said the Satmarer Rov, to Chassidim and Misnagdim. In bygone years when each were on a high spiritual level, there was a need to separate. But today are spiritual level is so low we are on the level of plain boiled potatoes. There is no need to separate.

  11. Satmar studies other Chassidus cause they do not have their own Chassidus. Satmar is not a Chasidic group. The leader of Satmar is the Satmar ROV not Satmar Rebbe. Look into their history. They took on Chassidic Looking dress in Europe because of high intermarriage and assimilation in their community. The Satmar Rov made a decree to wear such levush.

  12. At some point, we all ought to recognize that we can learn from both Chassidim and non-Chassidim about Torah, midos, tefilla, spirituality in general, etc. The idea that any one Orthodox group—to the exclusion of the others—has the total lock on truth has caused a lot of mischief.

  13. I find this post offensive (along the lines of the comments of Tal and Ron) as it assumes and spreads the myth that Hassidim are the spiritual ones and Litvaks are not. That is typical Hassidic propaganda. Additionally one early commenter made explicitly offensive comments about Misnagdim, implying that there is no logical basis for their position, beyond hysteria. I wonder if someone did the same about his group, if it would be allowed here. There seems to be a double standard operating.

    The fact is that there are logical reasons for the stance of the Misnagdim and they can be found in works such as The Hassidic movement and the Gaon of Vilna by E.J. Schochet in English and sefer Hagaon, by Rav Dov Eliach, in Hebrew. If you truly want to understand the stance of one side of a machlokes, ask those on that side, not their counterparts holding different views.

    Also, it seems offensive and deceptive when a commenter uses the handle ‘misnaged’ to espouse a strongly Hassidic POV (point of view). Is that deceptive or what? Are such deceptive tactics allowed by our holy Torah? I think that does not reflect well on someone who does that.

    Misnagdic/non-Hassidic spirituality definitely exists, even if we don’t go around proclaiming it to all and sundry at high volume, or wear it on our sleeves. Still waters run deep.

  14. I disagree with one of the earlier comments that one must affiliate and study the seforim of just one chassidic group. Maybe Chabadniks mainly or exclusively study Chabad works, but I don’t think this is true with many chassidic groups. The Satmar rebbe often recommended people study the chassidic literature of other groups, including Rebbe Nachman’s work.

    Many famous Yeshivish rabbis, some Sephardic rabbis like the Baba Sali, and various Chassidic leaders have all praised the work of Rebbe Nachman, as seen in the quotes on this site:

    http://www.breslev-midot.com/eng/hillulat_moharahn_2005.asp

    I personally daven from a few pages of Reb Noson’s Litukei Tefillot (in English translation) each morning, and try to study a few pages of Likutei Eitzot (a shortened version of Rebbe Nachman’s main work, Likutei Moharan) each day. A translation into English is available for free here:

    http://www.breslov.org/torah/pdf/Advice.PDF

  15. Although learning Chasidus is an important part of “injecting” more Chassidus into one’s life, there is also something to be said for the fact that Chassidus is also a sense of time and place, a rhythm, a certain atmosphere. Therefore, to the extent possible, I would recommend spending time in a chassidishe shul – learning, going to mikvah, davening, singing, whatever, and generally absorbing the pulse of chassidishe life.

  16. Like many BTs, I was mekareved (brought to Torah observance) by a Yeshivish oriented institution.

    Since Michael became close to Yiddishkeit in a Yeshivish place, he might feel a lack of spiritual growth having left the cloistered halls of the Yeshivah. It’s much harder to find closeness to God in the workaday world as one was accustomed to in the Yeshivah.

    Historically speaking, Chassidus was specifically designed to provide the working Jew with intense spiritual input and might be a more prevalent and ready-made solution for him.

    Originally, Rabbi Yisrael Salanter tried to institute the Beis HaMussar for working people, but when that didn’t succeed he instituted the study of Mussar into the Yeshivah curriculum, where it exists today (except for Brisk).

  17. I agree with Tal regarding the need to work on oneself and ones relationship with HaShem, and I a devoted Torah u’Maddah adherent. The classic Mussar texts like Chovot HaLevavot, Orchot Tzadikim, and Mesilat Yesharim are available to all Jews and well worthwhile. I also find many of the aggadic passages in the gemara to be particularly inspiring.

  21. I clarified with the author that the intent was “A hasidic approach to life, meaning a philosophy infused with chassidus but not necessarily hasidic in minhagim”.

  22. Ron said,
    “The author of this piece has not defined his terms, as I requested that he do in my first comment”

    It would be nice to know what the author actually meant, but this side-conversation about the topic from other perspectives has some merit of its own.

    Ron also said,
    “David, Bob, you remind my of my kids.”
    Can I have the keys to the car?

  23. I think BEYOND BT SHOULD INVITE AND ALLOW A CHABAD-LUBAVITCH CHASID TO PUBLISH ARTICLES ON HERE. There is too much confusion and incorrect statements about Chabad on here.

    I generally only have positive things to say about Chabad, but this seems a little ridiculous considering that Chabad has such a well-developed site of their own (which is linked in the blog roll). Anyone who wants to learn about Chabad can easily do so on their website.

    I think that the study of the Talmud is way more important than the study of Chassidus or any emotion based pseudo spiritual, storytelling program.If you want to work on a specific area óf discipline just learn the relevant section in the Talmud.Trust me sin will never sound the same again.

    Allrighty. I guess that question is solved. :-P

    On the other hand, we all understand Jaded. She is our blog’s only true Brisker!

    LOL!!!

  24. David, Bob, you remind my of my kids. They ignore what I have to say, too, but I love them anyway.

    The author of this piece has not defined his terms, as I requested that he do in my first comment, and therefore you two are speaking past each other. You will continue to do so because we don’t know what he meant, or what we mean.

    On the other hand, we all understand Jaded. She is our blog’s only true Brisker!

  25. David, what would fall under prerequisites and what would fall under “nice but not a deal-breaker”?

    Well, I was thinking about accepting the metaphysical Rebbe/chassid relationship as a prerequisite.

    Besides that, the chassidic seforim seem to be a mix of Arizal kabbalah and drush, which you could pick up from Sefardic sources as well.

    The externals (such as peyos and a long coat) would seem to be “nice but not a deal-breaker,” however, perhaps the chassidim would view this differently.

  26. Misnaged said “A Chasid is dedicated to his/her Rebbe.”

    The discussion here is mainly about studying/integrating aspects of Chassidus, not necessarily about choosing a Rebbe. Obviously, once you’ve chosen a Rebbe, your main direction will come from that Rebbe. Chassidim generally study some works by other Rebbeim, too, even by Rabbeim from other Chassidic groups, and even by non-Chassidim. For example, I’ve read some recent Breslover writings that included quotes from or references to works by Misnagdim such as the GR”A (Gaon of Vilna) ZY”A.

  27. I have found many sites with a Chassidic flavor in which the authors are constantly working on themselves and their relationship with Hashem. I find this extremely motivating and it is where I want my Judaism to be.

    Where did the idea come from that working on oneself and one’s relationship with Hashem is exclusively Chassidus? As a dyed-in-the-wool Misnaged, I can tell you that is simply not the case. There are many Litvishe/Misnagdim who do work on their Avodas Hashem constantly.

    That being said, there are many derachim to servce Hashem, and if Chassidus speaks to you and improves your Avodas Hashem, then more power to you.

  28. David Schallheim noted, “Perhaps that’s the biggest obstacle—do you accept all the prerequisites of chassidic philosophy?”

    David, what would fall under prerequisites and what would fall under “nice but not a deal-breaker”?

  29. TO R’ Schallheim,
    Anyone can infuse their life with Chassidus. One does not necessarily have to have certain dress and etc…

    For you Chabad = Chassidus people,
    When with Chabad, they will study Chabad Chassidus. When with Breslov, they will study Breslov Chassidus. That is the fact. Chabad will not jump around because when you have a Rebbe you stick with the Rebbe. Switching Chassidus studies is switching Rebbes. A Chasid is dedicated to his/her Rebbe. You do not play games with such connections.

    P.S. Chabad has reasons for Gebrochts and non long peyos. Infact, the ARIZAL did not have langer peyos.

    I think BEYOND BT SHOULD INVITE AND ALLOW A CHABAD-LUBAVITCH CHASID TO PUBLISH ARTICLES ON HERE. There is too much confusion and incorrect statements about Chabad on here.

  30. I wanted to ask the Beyond BT audience, how important they think Chassidus is for a BT?

    If you’re learning mussar it would be superfluous. Not everyone relates to mussar, however, just as not everyone relates to chassidus.

    Either mussar or chassidus is of the greatest importance. Most of my mussar teachers were eclectic and incorporated works of chassidus in their world-view, as did Rabbi Eliyahu Dessler (such as Tanya and Rav Tzaddok HaKohen).

    Mussar and chassidus are the wine, you need to fill up on bread—Torah and Halachah—and use the wine to elevate your spiritual growth.

    It’s simply an issue of different strokes for different folks. Chassidus is strongly influenced by kabbalah, and mussar is more straightforward.

    How would they suggest injecting some Chassidus into their lives?

    A teacher is necessary, like anything else in spiritual growth. Without a proper teacher you won’t derive the full benefit from it, and could even get messed up.

    Are their any obstacles on the path of integrating Chassidus?

    Perhaps one of the obstacles is that you probably can’t get the real feel of chassidus without being chassidic. Are you ready to do that?

    I once read a quote from the Belzer Rebbe on the subject of integration into the chareidi world to the effect that if a BT pays the price, growing peyos, wearing the lavush, and learning yiddish, he has guaranteed acceptance for his children in the Belzer community’s schools and institutions and a complete intregated path of life.

    But you have to believe in it first!

    Perhaps that’s the biggest obstacle—do you accept all the prerequisites of chassidic philosophy?

  31. That’s what I’m getting at, Bob. When I was a semi-Lubavitcher I remember we’d sit down and they’d say, “Now we’re going to learn chassidus!” and I’d say, wow, this is really it, huh! And then I realized no one was going to explain, like, gebrokts or long peyes (which Lubavs don’t even have!) or any of that stuff.

    Excellent all-encompassing metaphysical conceptualization of the universe, humanity, the Torah and sparks and stuff, though!

    Hm.

  32. About two years ago, one of the Jewish maazines (Mishpacha? Jewish Observer?) had an article about a new yeshiva in Israel for litvishe boys who want to learn in a chassidishe atmosphere (non-Lubavitch). Does anyone know about this yeshiva? Or the article that wrote about it? It sounded like a great place for not-so-new baalei teshuva interested in a chassidic way of life.

  33. Involvement in Chassidus (as related to the movement that began in the 1700’s) can mean a few different things today.

    1. Studying or adopting ideas of the Chassidic masters, past and present, without necessarily affiliating with a recognized Chassidic group.

    2. Going one step further and actually affiliating with a Chassidic group.

    3. Doing 1. or 2. above, but with one specific set of ideas (those of Chabad) and one specific group (Chabad-Lubavitch). On the whole, Chabad people equate Chassidus with Chabad, so their words need to be interpreted accordingly.

  34. What are the texts one would learn to begin exploring Chassidus? Where are the Chassidic mentors found? (other than Chabad, who can be found everywhere)?

  36. I think that the study of the Talmud is way more important than the study of Chassidus or any emotion based pseudo spiritual, storytelling program.If you want to work on a specific area óf discipline just learn the relevant section in the Talmud.Trust me sin will never sound the same again.

  37. Chassidus is vital to one’s Jewish Life.

    A story is told: There was a king with a very ill son. Many doctors came to cure the King’s Son but no doctor was able to cure. One doctor came and said that the highly valued diamond kept in a secret container within the King’s Palace is the only material that can cure the son. So the King took the Diamond and ground it into pieces to save his son.

    This is Chassidus. It is a precious Jewel that needed to be broken in order to save the Jewish people. It is vital to every Jew. Chassidus is never an either or option. One never has to decide between Gemorah or Chassidus. Why? Because Chassidus enlightens and shines the Talmud. Chassidus is considered the Nefesh and soul while Talmud is considered the Guf and Body. Both aspects are very important. Chassidus is considered the Salt and Pepper on Torah

    And most importantly, the Baal Shem Tov is told that Moshiach will come when his Wellsprings (Chassidus) will overflow.

    Chassidus is vital to all Jews nowadays whether one is Chassidic, Litvish, Mizrachi, Sephardic, and etc.. Study Chassidus.

  38. But surely we are clear that “constantly working on [oneself] and [one’s] relationship with Hashem” is hardly a monopoly of “chassidus”?

  39. I think the intent is “A hasidic approach to life,” meaning a philosophy infused with chassidus but not necessarily hasidic in the manner of a Rav Hutner or a Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz”.

  40. Are we using the term chassidus here to mean “a hasidic way of life,” i.e., hasidic minhagim and the like? Or “a hasidic approach to life,” meaning a philosophy infused with chassidus but not necessarily hasidic in the manner of a Rav Hutner or a Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz? Or “learning Tanya,” which is how Chabad uses the term?

  41. There must be some secret place where the “virulent form” of “Misnagdim” referred to by Rabbi Shmuel hang out nowadays. I’ve not met any.

    The only really vehement Orthodox opposition that exists is not against Chassidim or Chassidus per se, but against a particular faction’s attempt to pre-anoint the Mashiach.

  42. I wanted to ask the Beyond BT audience, how important they think Chassidus is for a BT?

    Potentially, very – it’s a wonderful thing – like swimming in a lake and opening your eyes underwater – everything is murky but when you put a facemask on suddenly the same things have definition and clarity.

    How would they suggest injecting some Chassidus into there lives?

    When Ravi Shankar came out to open the concert for Bangla Desh, he was fiddling for a few minutes with the instruments – the crowd went wild as they had bever really been exposed to eastern music before. He smiled and said “thank you – if you like the tuning so much I’m sure you;ll love the music” Similarly if you like the flavor of virtual cyberchassidus, you’ll love the real thing:)
    I’m sure there’s a Tanya shiur out there somewhere:)(just a hunch)

    Are their any obstacles on the path of integrating Chassidus?

    Misnagdim. In their most virulent form they’re like the Japanese soldiers stranded on a Pacific Island for 40 years after the war and who don’t know that the war ended a long time ago. The more benign ones are just snarky. Most folks however realize that the hysteria which surrounded chassidus’ inception (due to its temporal proximity to Sabbateanism) was unneccesary.

    B’hatzlacha and may your wellsprings run over!

    I was raised LW yeshivish and did a “walkabout” and then when I returned, I “upgraded my software” incorporating much more chassidus into my life. I’m still a hybrid, but the chassidus has certainly shown me where I need work.

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