When I was first becoming observant, one book that had a great effect on my thinking was Tradition in a Rootless World: Women Turn to Orthodox Judaism. It was written by a non-frum sociologist who immersed herself in two different communities of Baalei Teshuva to learn why they chose to become observant and in what ways they differed. She spent a few weeks studying at a Beis Chana Chabad Seminary for Baalos Teshuva and several weeks with the Lincoln Square Synagogue, a center for many modern orthodox Baalei Teshuva in Manhattan.
The modern orthodox approach to teaching Baalei Teshuva at Lincoln Square, was that their whole approach was completely this-world centered. They taught how Judaism and observance leads to a better life in this world. They showed people how being observant was healthier physically, emotionally and socially. They showed people how, if they became more observant, they could have better lives in this world. This was their main approach to outreach.
In contrast, the approach at the Chabad seminary was to encourage the women to grow in their committment to Yiddishkeit by focusing mostly on the spiritual side of it. They showed the people there how they could transcend this world and connect to G-d through keeping the Torah.
My impression was that the more “right wing” approach was to take a more direct route and actually focus on the real deal, which is that religion is supposed to bring a person closer to G-d, not merely a more “effective” life in this finite world.
However, I saw a very interesting Kedushas Levi in Parshas Vayishlach (5th piece) which speaks about this basic concept. He talks about two different stages in a person’s development. He says that when one is first beginning to get closer to G-d, the yetzer hara is very strong. The person is still so steeped in “this-world”, that they have no language or frame of reference for really focusing on the transcendent, which just doesn’t move the person at that stage because he just doesn’t speak that language yet. In order to grow in observance at that stage, a person can only fight their yetzer hara by focusing on all of the good things of this world that a person gets by keeping the Torah. In such a way, the yetzer hara is pacified and lays off a bit, and the person can grow.
But in “stage 2,” when a person is already davuk, cleaving to Hashem, then he should no longer focus on the good things of this world that the Torah will bring him. Rather, he should only focus on giving nachas ruach, pleasure to Hashem as his only motivation. At this stage, the nefesh haEloki, the G-dly soul, is so revealed that one does not need the crutch of focusing on the worldly benefits of Torah anymore to subjugate the yetzer hara. The lure of greater deveikus with Hashem and the ability to give Him nachas ruach through one’s avodah is incentive enough.
After seeing this piece in Kedushas Levi, I realized that both approaches, the Lincoln Square approach and the Chabad approach from that book are both necessary for different people, and for the same people in different stages of their development. I don’t actually know whether the teachers at Lincoln Squqre are actually aware of “Stage 2” or not. I don’t know if they intended to help influence the members of their community to the more spiritual, G-d oriented, transcendent side of Yiddishkeit when they were ready or not. But the Kedushas Levi is teaching that this method should not be shunned. It is something necessary for each of us in the beginning stages of our avodah (which can often take a lifetime) and should be used without embarrassment because for those of us coming from a secular culture, the worldy benefits are the only ones which will speak to us until we learn how much more is out there.
I don’t think that only one or the other approaches are right. We have to know ourselves to discern which strategy to pursue when fighting our own yetzer haras and which is the right approach when teaching others. We have to know which language we and others understand and which we don’t. IY”H, we should all be zoche to take the right approach in our own inner work and when trying to be mashpiah in a positive and productive way on others.
If you google “bioiok” we are in the top seven responses!
We’ve progressed from obscure acronyms to obscure words.
“I read the linked bioiok ”
seriously…what is a “bioiok?” and what link do you click on to see it?
“read the linked bioiok years ago and I concur with Charnie’s post.”
When I knew you in the old days you used to agree or disagree. Then you wen to law school and now you concur and dissent!
” Given the fact that DK’s posts on this issue basically are IMO a long stalking expedition of NCSY, to which I have commented on previously and at length, I see no need in starting a discussion or responding to a post which lacks a factual basis.”
So nu, tell us – then why did you respond?
a feilichen purim to all
Michal, I’m not Charnie, but I want to try to clarify what I think she said. Having read the book, she was explaining how the book’s *authors* viewed Chabad vs. MO. I don’t think she was stating her own views at all.
Please read Charnie’s post again. I hope you will find — as I did — that she was not insulting anyone.
To Charnie,
I never read the book, however, my journey started with the Yeshivish community and I found myself wanting. I was searching for something more spiritual or for a more joyful approach to Yiddishkeit. I found this in Chabad.
No I am not a space cadet, and yes, Bâ€H, I am very well-adjusted, thank you.
Who spoofed that “DK” comment up there? Come on, ‘fess up!
It reminds me of the old joke about how the secularists in Europe did a play about who was excused from the war based on the various exemptions in the Torah, and no one was left to fight but the Chofetz Chaim and the Brisker Rav. And the joke was that of course we believe that in fact if that’s how it came out, that’s how we’d win.
Notwithstanding your subtle dig, DK, we actually do agree that these things are distractions. Ultimately if you do not pull yourself out of the orbit of these distractions for at least some period of time, you will never really be able to construct a new spiritual abode for yourself.
I read the linked bioiok years ago and I concur with Charnie’s post. Given the fact that DK’s posts on this issue basically are IMO a long stalking expedition of NCSY, to which I have commented on previously and at length, I see no need in starting a discussion or responding to a post which lacks a factual basis.
Charnie,
To clarify, I wasn’t characterizing the book’s characterization of the two approaches. Just my impressions of the two approaches based on how they were described in the book. At 17, going to a Catholic high school down south and just becoming Shomer Shabbos, the Chabad approach, as described in the book just sounded more “authentic” to me.
Going back to the beginning of the article, I also read this book. Ironically, I found their view of MO versus Chabad to be quite different from DixieYid’s. To my understanding of the book, it clearly made the MO women sound more “normal” or well adjusted then those who veered towards Chabad. In fact, it quotes some people from Lincoln Square as saying that they sent certain girls who were more, shall we say, spacey, to Beis Chana, feeling they were better equipped to handle young ladies with issues.
Which just goes to show how different people view the same material in different ways, which again, explains why there are different “flavors” within the bounds of halacha.
Nobody but Hashem can tell where my spirituality is really holding, on the other hand, the state of my soul is much more readily evident to the world in the way I make my business dealings, pay my debts, behave decently and honestly with others, and follow through on my responsibilities.
It could be argued that the Yetzer Hara enjoys working through so-called “spirituality” even more than the material world.
D.Y. – she spoke of her personal experience and I dittoed it from mine. I think she was only circuitously connecting to that Vort; free-associating with the idea that one begins to build connections to H’ in gradations. That brought to mind the fantasy that a serious Jew can learn to “graduate” from his Yeitzer…
I think your pt about using dveikus as simply a more refined (efficient?) tool for fighting the Yietzer is similar albeit more upbeat to what I was trying to say. I.e. that all we can hope for is stronger resolve and better tools for fighting our dark sides, but never for transcending or vanquishing it.
An interesting, related association: Last Shabbos a Breslover told me, in the name of his Rav, that the chazal abt one who’s bigger than his friend has also a bigger Yeitzer should NOT imply that the Yeitzer grows along with our ruchnius, but that IF one allows arrogance to enter the growth process (feeling bigger than another) than surely it will grow!!
I agree entirely, Dix, that both approaches are necessary to “…people in different stages of their development.”
A personal example:
When I began davening it was an exercise I compared to meditation: I take time to concentrate on important things, I regulate my breathing and relax with some non-English chanting. Not much different than TM.
But over time each session of prayer became an event, a communion with divinity. I look so forward to it, I plan my day around it.
And eventually some of us grow to embrace the belief that every word of tefillah we utter creates a little angel who flies Heavenward from our lips. That our very neshamah momentarily flies free from the binding of its vessel and touches its source.
Each mitzvah places us ever closer.
I would point out that there are many non-chassidic yeshivas that do an excellent job at promoting the “real deal,” and encouraging students to remove spiritual barriers like career, secular education, and of course, secular extended family and friends. And while the MO themselves may not teach the BTs to do this with the same vigor, many Modern Orthodox institutions, such as NCSY, have been very important in placing BTs in more “real deal” places where they can discard of these distractions.
Some of us are looking for something for which we previously meditated on top of a mountain.
Others need help dealing with the fact that they will now have to work until they are 119 years old. Torah has something for everyone.
squarepeg613 & yy:
Clarification. I didn’t write that the kedushas Levi said that one’s yetzer hara gets weaker with time. But rather, that when one reaches a level of Deveikus, he doesn’t need to use the gashmius-dikeh benefits of Torah to fight his yetzer hara. Rather, he can use the lure of giving nachas ruach to Hashem to fight any yetzer hara. The point where I said that, perhaps not clearly enough was here:
“But in ‘stage 2,’ when a person is already davuk, cleaving to Hashem, then he should no longer focus on the good things of this world that the Torah will bring him. Rather, he should only focus on giving nachas ruach, pleasure to Hashem as his only motivation. At this stage, the nefesh haEloki, the G-dly soul, is so revealed that one does not need the crutch of focusing on the worldly benefits of Torah anymore to subjugate the yetzer hara. The lure of greater deveikus with Hashem and the ability to give Him nachas ruach through one’s avodah is incentive enough.”
That being said, I think one other clarification is in order. He didn’t say that after some time being frum, we’d be at stage 2. He said he was referring to someone who’s already davek to Hashem, a very high level of being close and conscious of Hashem’s presence at all times. This takes years of hard work. See, e.g., Bilvavi seforim.
That being said, for us on our level, I agree with y’all that the yetzer hara doesn’t get any weaker. In some areas, it’s just focused on different things and in some areas it’s not. But the battle never ends! As the Gemara in Kiddusin 30b says, the yetzer hara renews itself against the person every single day. Oy!
Ditto to S.P. on the NOT GETTING WEAKER confession.
Yet I wouldn’t say it’s getting worse. Just not weaker.
There are definately aveiros that I’m no longer drawn to, b”H’. And there’s a sensitivity to kedusha that “he” seems to have very little sway over.
But when he comes out of his cage — boy does he have vigor!
It’s dismaying. Sometimes utterly depressing. But then I too ask the poster’s question — a little differently — and it seems to help:
Am I in this chullent (Torah life) for the benefits of lessening my sense of Yeitzer, or because I trust H’ knows what He’s doing by giving me the tools for confronting it?
Interesting. Two comments: First, my experience has been that my Yetzer Hara has *not* gotten weaker as I’ve become more observant. If anything, I feel it has gotten stronger — although its playing field may have changed. I get tempted by different things, perhaps.
Also, it is possible to view the more material approach as an indication of the Truthfulness of the spiritual approach. With the spiritual approach, it can feel like “these people tell me I’ll get closer to God if I do x and avoid y, but who’s to say they’re right?” But if we see the non-spiritual benefits, we can more easily accept that the Mitzvot are God-given.