Kinah for Tisha B’Av

10 comments on “Kinah for Tisha B’Av”

1. To Mr. Cohen #7: So where do we go? Even in Yerushalayim there are Gays living together. So there is no secular marriage in Medinat Yisrael. They go to a country where Gay marriage is performed, marry, and come back to Medinat Yisrael where their legal marriage is recognized. There is no place on Earth to escape this sin.

   We have to listen to our Gedolim. When our Gedolim order us to leave New York State, then we should leave. Until then, I for one am personally going to stay here. I do not see our many Yeshivos Gedolos such as the Peekskill Yeshiva, Nitra Yeshiva, the Mirrer Yeshiva of Brooklyn, Bais HaTalmud, Novominsk, Chofetz Chaim, MTJ or any other of our citadels of Torah joining Bais Medrash Govoha (which was originally in White Plains, New York until it moved to Lakewood, New Jersey) and going westward across the Hudson River to the Garden State.

2. Our pure kinderlach learning new vocabulary words from their unclad nonJewish “cousins” at mandatory family get-togethers! OY! OY!

3. I agree with Steve here. There is a modern tendency that could well have been included in this litany of indeed “lamentable” (but not Lamentations-able) conditions: To trivialize profound things, to reduce them to our own frame of reference.

   We have a lot of challenges that Jews in previous generations could never have dreamed of. But unlike most of them, very few of us have to worry if we or those we love will be murdered, or taken captive, or forcibly baptized, or accused of ritual murder. Those who live in this country can enjoy civil rights and material opportunity on a par with any citizen in a manner inconceivable to the majority of Jews who every lived until about a century ago. We can live in the Holy Land, with all the spiritual opportunity that represents.

   Moreover, this proffered bit of keening, which certainly does, again, raise real issues, may be afflicted as well by historicism or perhaps an undue romanticization of the inner lives of our predecessors. This is an easy enough mistake to make, what with the “received” or “Artscroll” version of the saintly, simple shtetl yid of the past, but I am very skeptical of it.

4. How can we continue to justify living in New York State (NYS), where same-gender “marriages” (G_d save us) are now officially approved by the government?

   Continuing to live here because there are yeshivot and synagogues is like living in Sodom because they have nice yeshivot and synagogues there.

   Rabbis used to say (correctly) that no pious Jew could live in Las Vegas because of the gambling and immorality there. But with same-gender “marriages” officially approved by NYS, living in NYS is worse than living in Las Vegas.

5. Thank you Rabbi Lam. Although I followed the kinnos on OU with great appreciation, I don’t think any spoke to me as directly as this.

6. We don’t belong here. Notwithstanding the medina shel chesed, it’s not our home. We live next door to people who hate us, even the nice ones. Oy! This is why we have this period to mourn.

   A frum elementary school child attending public school due to a lack of funds…he plays on the playground happily with the african american kids and tries to be accepted into their games. Oy!

   Our own kids who spend Shabbos afternoon staring out the window at the spanish family’s barbecue across the street, and are entertained by thier antics. Oy!

   Late October bar mitzvahs at the seudah hall, with loads of people hanging out in the lobby or outside, wearing headphones catching the playoff scores. Oy! (And sometimes the bar mitzvah kid wishing he could join them. Oy! Oy!)

   Let’s rip our clothes to shreds…along with all of the other things listed above. This is a reason to mourn deeply, and a valid reason to write such a kinnah.

   This isn’t home, and it really hurts. At least it should.

7. WADR to the noble intentions of the author, if one looks at the text of the Kinnos and their sources, as one can find in either the ArtScroll, Goldschmidt or Mesoras HaRav edition, the focus is events of a catastrophic nature which led the author to write and ask what happened to HaShem’s protection of His People, and the corresponding Chillul HaShem, and the momentous changes in the world caused by the Churban HaBayis. Some Kinnos focus on the cause of such events. RYBS maintained that Kinnos span the gamut from national, communal and individual sufferering, as a means of showing that Tisha B”Av is a day reserved for mourning and delving into questions such as Tzadik VRah Lo, etc.

   One does not see self-inflicted wounds even of the most grievous nature being the basis of Kinnos, but rather transgressions of a Bein Adam LaMakom and Bein Adam LChavero level by generations that were closer to Sinai but whose transgressions seem beyond our imagination if one studies Tanach carefully.

   IOW, one does not see self inflicted transgressions caused by living in a post Emlightenment society in such Kinnos as Btzesi Mitzrayim, Arzei HaLevanon, Shaalei Srufah, etc. OTOH, the Kinnos that begin with Tzion serve as a means of reminding us of the beauty of the Land of Israel and implanting an awareness of the same and to avoid engaging in either of the two following logical fallacies-we have a sovereign Jewish state and a gorgeous capital in Yerushalayim-so why fast or as long as the Mosque exists and the Medinah is imperfect-don’t talk to me about a sovereign Jewish state and the renaissance of Torah learning and observance since 1948. IMO, both extremes are equally unappealing and inappropriate themes for expression on Tisha B’Av.

   Perhaps, the key might be to delve into the issues that caused the Churban , learning from as a means to avoid the mistakes of the past, as opposed to writing new Kinos, and viewing the hashkafic lessons as a means of stifling discussion on issues of Halacha and Hashkafa.

8. Thank you Rabbi – I’m very happy you printed this, because I heard you recite it during an online shiur and I actually tried to listen and pause it and copy it down and eventually gave up! Thank you

9. Why shouldn’t we update kinnos to include our times? Kinnos from the Crusades and the Holocaust were written. I would say this one too. Must have been heart-wrenching to write.

   Lots of writing talent, like in these lines:
   “The inmates are running the asylum”
   “Texting our way to oblivion”
   “There I said it! Without saying it!”

   The only thng that’s missing is making the initial letters say the authors name.

10. Rabbi Lam,

    Simply beautiful..to the point…so true…..

    May Hashem bless you!

    Best,
    Marty Fleischer

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