David and I were entering my Shul to learn last Sunday and, hurray for us, we actually avoided Bitul Zman with Beyond BT stuff. In the front window there was a sign from a kid’s event that morning titled “Beach Blanket Bingo”. David gave me a quizzical look and I replied, “You know us crazy Charedim”.
That’s a rap we sometimes get at Beyond BT – we’re too Charedi. Does that mean that we take our Judaism seriously? Does that mean that we’re not happy that our concentration in davening is not always so great? Does that mean that we feel that we should be learning more? Does that mean that we’re constanly examining our performance of mitzvos? Does that mean that we’re trying to become more chesed-oriented? Does that mean that we’re working hard on judging people favorably? If that’s what is meant by Charedi, please count us in.
But if you’ll look into the matter more deeply you might find: if you’re reading this site, then you also take your Judaism seriously; that you’re also interested in becoming a better Jew; that you also want to develop a better relationship with the Master of the Universe; that you also want to make this world a better place. So maybe you’re Charedi too.
Once we realize that we’re in this quest to draw closer to Hashem together, and that drawing lines, building barriers, and stereotyping is not going to get us with where we need to go, then maybe we’ll be able to look at every Jew and ask some simple yet powerful questions:
What can I learn from this person?
What can I give to this person?
Then we’ll be ready to share our stories, our victories, our defeats, our constructive suggestions and give support to each other as we journey together on the path Hashem mapped out for all of us.
Bingo anyone?
Mark, David – I think your answers are correct. Perhaps reaching out to a few more BTs who are not viewed as “so Charedi” would allow more people to realize that this blog is, in fact, for BTs of all stripes.
I’m not concerned at all if the blog management is chareidi, semi-chareidi, middle-of-the-road, etc., as long as everyone gets treated fairly
and the management actively discourages the kind of “my group/rebbe/hashkafah/school is better than yours, nyaa!!” catfight that lacks meaningful content.
I can also do without accusations by those on the short end of an valid argument that the opponents are being mean/hateful/divisive/un-BT-like…
On the whole, this blog is very well run.
Menachem, first of all I want to note that although David and I administer this blog and set the policy and tone, we really want it to be a place for *all* Baalei Teshuva (and Torah Oriented/Observant Jews). So let us reiterate our call for contibutors and commentors representing other derachim within the Torah camp.
I’m glad you agree that all Torah observant Jews are firmly based on Torah, Avodah and Gemillas Chasadim. The divergences you cited seem to me more rooted in specific hashkafa and cultural differences.
My perspective is based on the fact that I am a Kew Gardens Hills BT, who follows the hashafa and limud HaTorah of Yeshiva Chofetz Chaim with many teachers and close friends who are products of the REITS wing of YU.
I share many of the values you stated regarding the state of Israel, the value of secular studies, and certain women’s issues, but don’t consider myself Modern Orthodox and few would objectively call Kew Gardens Hills a Charedi enclave. So perhaps that is why I don’t feel comfortable with the Modern or Charedi labels.
As far as the blog being too Charedi, we have a lot of different contributors and commentors and it is expected that sometimes a post or a comment thread will have a “Charedi” flavor. But those threads are often peppered by our commentators with a non-Charedi viewpoint also.
Lastly I think that the proper focus for any Baalei Teshuva is Torah, Avodah and Gemillas Chasadim (TAG), that’s the meat and potatoes of Judaism. Not that the other issues are not important, they are. But if a BT or any Jew focuses on the TAG which unites us instead of some of the hashkafic and cultural differences that sometimes divide us, it seems that person and the Jewish People will be so much better off because of it.
Mark, while I understand the gist of your post, I think you are oversimplifying the “chareidi” label. An outsider may not use the label correctly, but “inside” we know that there are important philosophical differences. Of course these differences should never lead to the type of Sina we sometimes see. Especially since we are all operating l’shem shamayim.
Non-chareidi orthodox Jews can and do take their Judaism just as seriously, daven just as hard, do just as much chesed, etc. However, there are at least 3 important areas where they diverge; the state of Israel, the value of secular studies, and certain women’s issues.
This is not the place to go into each of these issues, but they are significant, more so here in Israel.
So if you’re talking about someone who is not familiar with the nuances of orthodoxy commenting that this blog is too chareidi then your post is on target. But for someone within orthodoxy who is not philosophically chareidi this blog does at times seem “too chareidi”. There’s nothing wrong with that per se. It’s your blog and you are free to orient it as you wish. However, the only downside is that I think it’s important for new people who are awakening to yidishkeit to be aware of and feel secure in the knowledge that there is more than one path to true Torah observance.
AwEsomE / perfectly profound post & global perspective. I love the “what can I learn, what can I give “soul’s slogan. It definitely is the perfect Jingle to incorporate into the daily focus life objective, when communicating /connecting with others, especially connections/communications involving short fuses/sparks/connecting cable deficiencies/ faulty wiring & misguided energies. And It sooo facilitates in the proper channeling of the emotional energies towards the correct global focus and path direction.Thanx!!
One interesting (and sometimes annoying) issue is that the “Chareidim” are often mistakenly associated with Israel’s political far-right.
I was learning in a BT Bais Medrash in J’lem when Rabin was first elected (1992). I identified with the far-right Tziyonim and was surprised that my Israeli-born yeshivish cousins in Har Nof while suspicious of Rabin’s motives were not very heated over the idea of relinquishing territory.
The middle-aged mother of this family asked rhetorically “What do we need Shechem for?” Another said the settlements were endangering the lives of Jews.
This was pretty revealing and shocking to me. Of course not all hold by these views but considering that both HaRav Shach zt’l and the then Gerrer Rebbe zt’l were not so hawkish on these issues it’s reasonable to conclude that Israeli Charedim en masse were not in lockstep with the far-right regarding Yehuda & Shomron.
Ed, although what you are saying is obviously good advice, it has been our experience that when people on other blogs say that Beyond BT the blog is “too charedi”, it usually is a reference to the derech that some writers and commentors have chosen. It is a label which usually does not enhance dialog.
When a BT is characterized as “too chareidi,” it means that he’s acting in a manner that’s way too presumptuous, in light of his limited background. It is embarassing to witness the wrongheaded BT attempt to go from point “A” to point “Z” without hitting all the points in between. One lacks credibility with one’s peers when that happens. If the BT wants to be “serious,” it should be done in a non-showy manner, in which you blend in with your peers, and do NOT make needless showings of what a “frummie” you are.
Awesome post. For me, it’s taken years to “not take myself too seriously”. Although my wife still says I’m guilty of it at times. When most of the people I knew became frum their was a learning curve of “how serious you must be”. If one has a creative outlet (like blogging) then one has a, hopefully, positive venue. My daughter just stared “backyard camp” this week. My wife and I were a little taken back when we found out that the 3-4 mixed (boys/girls) had separate swimming.
We could have flipped out, but my daughter is happy, and we DID choose this camp for her (without knowing about the swimming). The big picture, I told myself, is that it’s only a backyard camp. Your post only stengthens the creation of BeyondBT. Great job.
“maybe we’ll be able to look at every Jew and ask some simple yet powerful questions”
I don’t know about bingo, but I do like this attitude!
“I have met David, and he seems pretty “normalâ€.
Boy, do I have you fooled!
When you say “some of the views can come across as somewhat charedi”, I wonder if the emphasis should be put on the “some”. It’s important to realize that this is a group blog. Although Mark and I read everything that is submited for posting, we don’t censor or exclude anything that is of relevance to BTs unless, in our opinion, it is something which disparages, degrades or looks down upon others with a different derech.
That means that we will post pieces by BTs who choose to wear noserings just as much as we would post a piece “Why I Wear a Shtreimel”.
In addition, like pretty much any other blog, the comments are open and don’t necessarily reflect the tone of the writers of the posts. Although it seems to me that the commentors are much more often questioning the posters’ positions when they seem more extreme. That is not to equate charedism with extremism.
Some BTs are charedi, some are modern orthodox, some are leumi daati, some are left-wing yeshivish, and many don’t fit neatly into these or any other categories, thank G-d. We want to give a voice to all of them.
One of the primary goals here is to realize that there are as many different paths to growth as there are people seeking to get there. Another primary goal is to realize that each of us can offer something to others, even if they are on different paths and each of us can learn something from others even if they are on different paths.
No matter what your Orthodox leanings may be, some commenters will take a different view anyway. Clearly, everyone has been getting a fair chance to chime in.
As an aside, the democratic and semi-anonymous nature of blogs like this one is a mixed blessing. Everyone can contribute and learn (good), but not necessarily everyone can back up their opinions with facts (not so good, but inevitable). The blog format doesn’t lend itself to in-depth analysis. It’s better used to point people toward more complete sources of information through links, etc.
Also, regular blog participants can fall into roles as if they were performers. The result can be sort of like an improvised skit or other ensemble performance. The “performance” may or may not appeal to those who aren’t “regulars”.
Though I haven’t (yet) had the opportunity to meet you, I have met David, and he seems pretty “normal”. I *do* see why some people say this blog is a bit “charedi”, and it is worth noting if only so you’re aware of it. Some of the views (and no, I’m not going to get into specifics, or whether I think it is/isn’t a ‘problem’) can come across as somewhat Charedi to the exclusion of viewpoints which are not. It’s not often, and I wouldn’t call it extreme, but it’s worth noting. (Assuming it wasn’t a rhetorical question. :) I’ve been up waaaay too long.)