How High Are Your Fences?

When it comes to dealing with non-Torah influences most families and communities build fences. The basic difference is how high are the fences.

There is probably a continuum of fence heights but the overall policies can perhaps be described as:

1) Let everything in and throw out that which is inappropriate
2) Let almost nothing in to keep out the inappropriate and in the process keep out much that might be appropriate
3) Let in the things that can help bring you closer to Hashem

How would you describe the fence building policies out there?

What have you found that works for you and your family?

Can you see the dangers and the benefits of the other approaches?

Do you think the main problem with high fences, is that they’re a bad idea or because fences are ineffective and can cause backlashes?

What are the major areas that fences are built in your home or community: Internet, TV, Music, Movies, Newspapers, Radio, Fiction Books, Non-Fiction Books?

What are the issues around communal fences as opposed to household fences?

15 comments on “How High Are Your Fences?

  1. My opinion: that for families who erect fences to keep outside negative influences away from their children (as we do), it is best to slowly introduce access to these influences as they get older, in bite-sized, monitored way, so as to avoid complete naivete when they leave the home, and to avoid the “taavah syndrome” which is what I call the desire for a bad thing born of its being completely forbidden in their home (but permitted to their friends) (like candy).

    Examples: the internet: I allow my teens access to kosher sites, let them learn how to browse to shop for shoes, etc (obviously with a strong filter) so that they understand how pop-ups and google searches work and how they can protect themselves against unwanted images; allowing them to read newspaper or magazine accounts of crime, both physical and financial, esp. the situation of the bochurim imprisoned in Japan, so they know what to beware of and they do not innocently become a victim; allowing them Jewish music which I think is awful so they don’t feel deprived and desire worse, goyishe music.

    Insulation is good, at the right time and in the right doses, and as the kids get older, it is a mitzvah to prepare them for reality.

  2. Instead of “fence”, would “semipermeable membrane” work? Anyhow we all know what a fence means. Even fences need maintenance and repair and replacement now and then. While our life choices need frequent review, and we need to improvise responses to many new conditions, we obviously need some stable rules and practices, too. The Torah guides us even in quickly reacting to things.

  3. “… the “fence” image implies that we can “set it, and forget it”

    The fence analogy has a traditional element, as in “make a fence for the Torah”. If you want a deluge-age analogy, it would be the Teivah. A space age metaphor would be a spacesuit(see link below from R. Horowitz):

    “I then quoted Rav Hutner’s thought regarding the teivah and I said that we are entering phase three, where parents and schools will need to provide our children with a “spacesuit,” a multi-layered moral compass that is gradually developed during a child’s formative years”

    http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=235&ThisGroup_ID=261

  4. Wrong analogy – the “fence” image implies that we can “set it, and forget it” – when in fact we are talking about applying critical judgment and being aware of our values as we live every moment.

    I liked the poster who suggested “moving fences” – which is simply another way of saying, “one can’t just blindly adopt a blanket standard, one must apply their judgment and critical abilities.”

    The goal of Torah is to live an aware, intentional life before Hashem. That means I am constantly reviewing and evaluating ALL the influences around me from that perspective.

    So sometimes reading a magazine is the right thing to do (as in post 8) and sometimes it’s not.

    Our generation has embraced the Chumra Culture partly because we don’t want to take this responsibility of deciding upon ourselves. This is definitely true of many BTs as well.

    But Torah Judaism is not about getting into “the express lane” to Hashem and then hitting autopilot. Doesn’t work that way…

  5. For those interested in neo conservative thought and analyis, Commentary is a monthly dose of sanity in our house. The Weekly Standard is another similar magazine that is a weekly,

  6. We used to get US News & World Report; it was a great news source w/o all the pop culture of other news mags. Too bad it went out of print; now the only way to get it is over the Internet.

  7. A yeshiva bachur went to his Rav (who later told us this story) and said, “My father loves talking about news and politics, and I couldn’t care less about those things. I’m in yeshiva and I just want to learn. What do I do?”
    The Rav responded, “Go out and buy yourself a subscription to US News and World Report and read it. If this is important to him, you should know it.”

    The magazine has other stuff in it too, like ads. but his Rav weighed the sides. And, of course, every situation is different.

    The most important thing I see in this is that the boy ASKED instead of just deciding on his own, and the Rav ANSWERED him according to HIS situation!

  8. I think that there is ample room to allow BTs to set fences, but not so high that as a result they become ignorant of what is happening in the world. The media can be filtered-while most of TV is pure garbage, there are good things re science , history and politics on cable. Likewise, even the American Yated realizes the importance of having some knowledge on what affects the Jewish People and Israel with a good selection of pro-Israel columnists such as Charles Krauthammer, etc. Being interested in American and European history and politics, I tend to read such works that I think have some relevance to Jewish history. I agree that secular music, the theatre and the overwhelming percentage of movies simply cannot pass a simple standard of whether the same constitute a violation of Yehareg Val Yaavor.

  9. For what it’s worth, we got rid of the TV years ago and had no home internet capability when our kids were young. This kept distractions from getting put of hand. Their reading habits (fiction and non-fiction, religious and general) were OK, so we didn’t have to regulate those. Communities we lived in didn’t try to intrude.

  10. IMHO, people tend to set fences higher where children are concerned. Parents are naturally protective about not allowing children near bad influences. That’s why there are G rated videos for children and NC-17 films for adults only. Where Torah is concerned, we parents do want to filter out even more of the outside world. We need not assert that everything “out there” is bad, one can point to the decent firefighter or police officer as an example. It’s not hypocrisy to turn fences into moving rather than stationary barriers.

  11. Wonderful article! Did the rabbis who argued with him just wave away everything he said?
    Every month there should be a Discovery seminar for FFBs!

    Here’s one statement from the article which sums up a lot:

    Unfortunately, today it has become almost the norm to teach our children that —אין חכמה בגוים
    there is no wisdom amongst the Gentiles at all. When children discover this to be blatantly untrue, they reject all we have taught them and end up seeking תורה בגוים , their very theory of life, amongst the .גוי

  12. SoG – Thanks for the link and your other recent links which have been very helpful to me.

  13. How about the issue of “moving fences?” i.e. having one fence for yourself, the b.t. while in the company of loved ones who are not observant.. often I find I am walking that very thin line of keeping my own fences, while attempting to “act normal” with my family… their conversations which can be hurtful/harmful to the neshama, food that might not be kosher, and most difficult of all, those moments when I am caught unaware like, “Let’s stop for pizza,” when the restaurant is traife. Now what?

    I know each person will answer these difficult moments according to their own hashkafa. It isn’t my own fences which are the issue, as much as trying to maintain those fences while still spending time with those whom I love so dearly, and feeling the strain of “exposing” myself to things which surely I would prefer not to… I nevertheless do many things to keep shalom and simcha among the different lifestyles, all the while davening that my own fences can be maintained in a healthy way!

  14. “Do you think the main problem with high fences, is that they’re a bad idea or because fences are ineffective and can cause backlashes?”

    Here is a good article on the topic, “Are Our Children Too Worldly? ” by R. Dr. Aharon Hersh Fried.

    (It’s somewhat dated in one aspect as it doesn’t discuss the internet, but when Dr. Fried was interviewed about the article on OU Radio a few years ago, he discussed the latter).

    http://www.hakirah.org/Vol%204%20Fried.pdf

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